Transcript

Roles/names are in square brackets, e.g. [Letitia].
Tone is in pipes, e.g. |exasperated|, these are very unreliable
Interjected of assent, dissent, etc. are in arrows, e.g. <uncomfortable laugh>
Asides are in parentheses but are actual quotes.

[Beginning]

[Letitia]
Would you like to start?
You can talk through some of your concerns, and then we can kind of update you with where we are.

[Mum]
OK
Yep, OK
Um
So obviously, the first, like, I just, I should start by saying that we not concerned about, um, consequences for this other kid. That's not even a priority of ours. The only priority is making [ME] feel safe at school.
So, putting into protective measures, where he can feel safe, uh, we've kind of, [ME] has disclosed his mental health is not so great at this moment, which we were also not aware of. Um, but obviously we've taken that seriously and we've reached out and we've gotten help, um, through our GP, who has connected us with Southern Health and stuff.
Um, and when we spoke to them, and they were like, we're just concerned about it just being taken seriously. That's the only thing, we just want to make sure that it's taken seriously.

Um, and I guess, when we spoke to them too, they obviously are mandatory reporters, and they reported it, but they also said that they will advocate for [ME] in making sure that, um, the school or if we need their help to get you guys on board to make sure that some things are in place to make him feel safe and protected, then they can help advocate for us too, because it's not about investigating if this child did this or that.

And if he was like he said, she said, it's just about making sure if there's any possibility of significant risk of harm for [ME], that that's addressed. So I just want to make sure that that's our only concern.

[Letitia]
Yeah, 100%. Yeah, um absolutely. And like we were going to come in saying we can only investigate to a point as well. Like, we're not police officers, as you know, we're teachers. Um, we have, during this time, talked to a few more students and gotten a few more witness statements.

And they have shed slight on some of the issues that [ME] has brought to attention. So that definitely helps us. Um, with that as well.

Um, so we are able to go back and relay more information to the other family too, um and be able to talk to them as well.

And it's really important that this is a reset for both the boys as well..

[Mum]
See, I think that's the concern with us is that [ME] doesn't feel comfortable with Mack in the classroom now.

Um, and also considering there was a significant time delay of even anybody addressing this issue, um. Monday, all of Monday, he had to sit there with Mack |exasperated|, all of Tuesday, he had to sit there with Mack. I can't imagine how that would feel as an adult, but as a vulnerable teenager who has had the courage to actually stand up and say 'I'm not okay with this'.

And then he had to go two days with feeling like nobody cared enoguh to do anything. He'd come home and he thought that we didn't care because we didn't know. If I hadn't done my job as a parent and checked his devices overnight, I don't know when I would have known. And that's heartbreaking for me, because thats exacerbated how he feels.

Like, he had to sit there and be like, does anybody care? Is Mack going to be doing it again.

Like, it's just - our concern now is, is this going to impact [ME]' learning? I don't know if you know, but [ME] is a very gifted, intelligent boy, who needs to be challenged academically. He loves learning.

So for him, the worst possible thing for his mental health would be that he has to now sit in this classroom, feeling uncomfortable, like, it just probably can't be.

Like, some of the things that were described, were on pur- seemed purposefully sneaky, in that sense, to avoid being detected. So our- that's also our priority too, because, to be quite honest, |exasperated| I don't feel comfortable with [ME] being at school at all right now. [ME] loves learning, he loves his teachers, he said. He loves his class teachers, and, so, he wants, he asked, specifically, for that, but I- and he doesn't feel safe with Mack either. And I don't feel same with him at school, to be honest, at all.

[Letitia]
Um, to go back to the mental health, has this stemmed from the situation that's happened from Mack?

[Acting Vice Prinicle, A. VP]
Is it isolated from that? Or is it more...

[Letitia]
Or is this something that you've been dealing with for a long time?

[Me]
Well, it definitely played a big part in it.

[Mum]
When we spoke to [ME], he said that it had been beginning from last year, like end of last year, which also happened to be

***

{Unrelated incident about one of my Airpods being destroyed. I have removed it because I didn't want to transcribe an incident that I do not believe it played the role presented here}

***

I apologise, like, being a coordinator and also teaching as well

Sometimes these things do slip through the gaps, but that's on me. Was there anything further that occurred this week?

[A. VP]
So he didn't come and talk to your or anything like that, in those two days?

[Me]
He never says much.

***

Oh, well, okay.

So we were lining up for Science on Tuesday.

And so he, I was on the wall again, and he was just like leaning up into me, basically.

[A. VP]
So that's Tuesday after?

[Me]
Tuesday, yeah.

[A. VP]
So that's still something that makes you uncomfortable.

[me]
Yes.

[A. VP]
Okay, so we still need to know these things. As much as it's not as escalated as things that you've said in your letter that's still something that needs to be made aware, okay?

So stemming on from what Ms. Hart said before, so we do have policies we have to follow

But we do have to follow it up. And like Ms. Hart said, she did ring Mack's parents straight away, and we talked to Mack straight away as well. Okay?

And then we also brought other students in to try and verify the claims.



[Mum]
But even besides verifying the claims, like what else was done to ensure that [ME] wasn't put in a position of that, thats' what I'm concerned about, nothing else was done to ensure that he wasn't vulnerable, feeling uncomfortable around that kid in the meantime while you investigated

[Dad]
That's more, it's just, he's come to you, he's opened up. He's reached out, which is the hardest step to do.

And youse have basically swept it away and said 'Go back to class.'

[Mum]
'While we work out whose version is true.'

That's the thing we're concerned about, just his safety.

[Dad]
Still no word from you guys about his letter. Nothing. Two and a half days later it took M to communicate with you guys for someone to ring us.

[A. VP]
Yeah. Fair

[Dad]
It's unacceptable, really.

[A. VP]
Yeah, no, we hear what you're saying.

[Letitia]
Yeah. Um, yeah, like, |not really type tone, sort of accusatory, sort of defensive, sort of indignant| I'm sorry. <uncomfortable laugh> And unfortunately like, it has been a long time for [ME] as well,, so it was quite a bit for us to work through and try to unpack as well.

Um, but I apologise that we didn't, um, contact earlier, but there's nothing we can do now to change that situation. We can only move forward and learn from this situation too.

[Dad]
What are your steps moving forward?

[Letitia]
Well, what would you like to see from here?

[A. VP]
Yeah, we want to hear like, that you don't want him in the class?

[Mum]
That is our ultimate... We would like them separated.
I don't care about the consequences for this kid. I don't care about anything else, I just want my son safe.

[A. VP]
So there is, I know you're saying you don't care about consequences.

[Mum]
So on the list of, um, like the hierarchy of punishments, where does that sit compared to the um, in-school suspension, that is obviously very favoured (and in my opinion, useless), like is that the worst, or?

[A. VP]
...Just all leads to suspension.

[Mum]
Right. Okay.

[A. VP]
So, um, with our suspensions, and obviously this is a very serious claim, so we're not, not taking this seriously. Please understand that. And that's why we are doing this investigation.

We're sorry that we feel that you- and you both- and you all feel that you've been left in a vulnerable situation.

We do apologise for that, but we are trying to investigate it. So we get all stories to make a full story from ours as well.

So we can make a very, um, fair judgement, okay?.

So as I said, we're not police officers. We're quite happy for you to go down that route if that's what you want to do. Okay, we can't, we haven't got enough evidence to do that, but you are more than welcome to do that.

[Letitia]
And we always work with external services as well

Um, in terms of moving classes, that won't be possible until possibly next semester. And that's something that will have to go through Lauren Shinfield. So that's not a promise we can make today. Um, but we can put that to her, and talk about the evidence that we've spoken about.

[Mum]
|Exasperated but like in a "God I am sick of this" way| So we're back to square one, where we're not going to do anything. Because that's literally the only thing that will keep him safe, from feeling safe, is the separation. [ME] has stated that he doesn't see Mack in any capacity other than the classrooms.

Like, there is no on the playground, no buses, no nothing else except for the classrooms.

So your solution is to be like, "we're gonna investigate this, we'll deal with it, but let's pu'cha back in that situation until we can properly do something."

[Letitia]
We have options where he doesn't have to go back into that classroom.

[Mum]
Where *[ME]* doesn't, the victim.

[Letitia]
<big inhale>
Unfortunately, like we've said, when we investigate to a point we can't actually-

[Mum]
I don't care about investigating, though. I don't care about the investigating.

What is the protective measures being put in place for [ME]?

[A. VP]
So do you not want- you're not open for [ME] to be moved classes?

[Mum]
|Exasperated and slightly weary by now| I don't want [ME] to be moved.



[A. VP]
So we can't move Mack.

[Mum]
Right.
Okay.
Because he has rights. I get it.
And [ME] doesn't.

[A. VP]
So- No, <unintelligible gibberish over like 3 people talking over each other>

So if there was someone to be moved, we would unfortunately have to move [ME], if that's what you want to happen.

[Mum]
That is a non-negotiable, or he will not be returning to school-

[A. VP]
So, we can't-

[Mum]
Like he will not come back into that classroom, as a parent, if he like- that- not even for one more class. I will not have that.

[A. VP]
So we have just said, we cannot move Mack, Okay?

[Dad]
Reasons?

[A. VP]
Reason being that... we can't verify the claim that his parents are fully denying that this happened.

[Me]
Why wouldn't they?

[A. VP]
|Defensive| No we are completely- we're not believing, that's not true, okay? We believe you.

Okay? But from our end, we have to have solid evidence to remove that student. Okay?

So until we get that, and that's why we still are trying to investigate this, so we can get that solid evidence. I understand this is evidence from you. But when we have one saying 'This 100% hasn't happened'

Okay? We are a bit tied there.

[Dad]
So what about the other people who have come and said it has happened?

[Letitia]
We have to an extent, and not to the severe extent that some of [ME] has described as well. Um, especially when [ME] said, before it's not so much some of the words

Like, we were really concerned when Mack was, like, he'd written in a segment, Mack was saying "I'm going to rape you"

Like woah, that's huge.

Um, that hasn't come through any of our statements either..

[Me]
Well because no one saw

[A. VP]


No, I understand. And no, it's all very well in hindsight, but in future, like we need to know these things straight away, because that's something that you've said that's happened last term. Okay?

And again, at the time, you're probably not going too feel comfortable coming forward, and we understand that, but we need to know these things straight away so we can act on them straight away as well.

[Me]
But even now you haven't done anything-

[A. VP]
We're trying to-

[Me]
When I have.

[Dad]
So what's the process if it was a female student, just out of curiosity?

[A. VP]
Well it's the same process

[Letitia]
Exactly the same.

[Mum]
Is it though?

[A. VP]
Yeah it kind of-

[Mum]
Or is this, like, a thing of, it's a boy and a boy, and it doesn't matter?

[A. VP]
Well, no, it-

[Mum]
Because he came forward he did what you're asking him to do. HE did, maybe not at the time, but he did come forward. And then it was literally ignored.

[A. VP]
It's not been ignored, I'm really sorry-

[Mum]
How is he going to feel like it's safe to come to someone again, who does he trust to deal with it now?

[A. VP]
He's- yeah- well-
We'd hope that he could come to use straight away. But, we are not ignoring that and that's why we, I'm trying to tell you we're not ignoring it.

[Dad]
[ME] is very clever and, you know, I'm not that clever, but to me it seems like not much has happened in a week, really, to be honest.

[A. VP]
Yeah, we're sorry that that's how you feel.

Because, we're just- we're telling you the process we're trying to take by talking to the other child. We're talking to the other child's parents, and uh-

[Mum]
And you've done what for [ME]?

[A. VP]
To try and verify his cl-

[Mum]
No, but I don't care about verifying it at the moment, the first priority is making sure he's safe. So what is being, what, besides us being like, he's not coming back to school, if he cannot be moved classrooms straight away then what was your plan?

[A. VP]
We have just told you that we can move him classes, and you said that wasn't a-

[Mum]
Well you said you have to speak to Lauren and you had the acc-

[A. VP]
We can take him out of class for learning now, like the actual permanent moving class has to be discussed.

[Dad]
But you can only take [ME] out.

[A. VP]
Well-
|Defeated| Yes.

[Letitia]
And that's why we did all that investigating work, to be able to put some of those in because we also have to, <inhale>, you know, have a quality for both students as well, because we can't just quickly say, well, this person said it <well, this person gave a frightfully detailed account of sexual assault>, therefore we're believing it

[Mum]
Well, yeah, I'd be like I wouldn't want my child to be around someone who's accused them of that, for both people's safety, also.

[Dad]
It doesn't matter whether you believe it or not, we don't really care if you believe it or not-

[Letitia]
We're not saying we don't believe it-
 We have to sha- We have a quality for every student in the college.

[Mum]
What is the usual, um, policies and procedures when this kind of thing with sexual harassment has been brought up? Like, what's the first action besides the investigating? Obviously, that's every single time, but what's that first policy and procedures that you guys have to follow? What would usually be the first thing that you have to do? For that child?

[A. VP]
Is this investigation

[Mum]
But besides the investigation, what physical things do you have in place to protect the child?

[Letitia]
...
I should have contacted home earlier, I'll be honest with that, um. But, in terms of <inhale, um, removing a child, or anything like that, we don't have specific policies for that in place.

[Mum]
|Skeptical| Really?

[Letitia]
|Quiet| Yeah, really.

[Mum]
Why?

[Silence]

[Dad]
It should be a non-given that you're just... like to make it safe

[Mum]
Like, if a child said they were raped in a bathroom and no one's seen it, I'm not saying that this is the escalation

[Unintelligible]

[A. VP]
So that would be police involvement immediately, because it's a-

[Mum]
And then that,

{While I have not transcribed the final half of the meeting, have the summary and opinions I wrote directly after the meeting ended}
{
The results are in

Ms Hart is trying to bullshit us into saying it must be true to mandatory report, i even said "So it must be true to mandatory report" and they said "Yes", and they said that James had the additional context of my mental health and the SA when i brought up his report

They told me that I should have said earlier, so they could act immediately, We all called their bullshit and yeah it went downhill from there

None of my classroom teachers were told, but the Acting Vice Principal did have the document forwarded to her, and as [H] never made a mandatory report, I must assume she was forwarding it to her before she talked to me. The Acting Vice Principal must also have read it between then and today.

[H] knows she fucked up, and was very defensive. I could see the dread in her eyes as I talked about her

At the end she had this look of "I'm fucked"

The acting vice principle was better, she actually seemed to care

They both pushed to focus on the future, so both tried to deflect from the mishandling

They said they cannot move [M] until next semester

They said they "100 percent believed me", which is bullshit as they did nothing and are refusing to do anything to [M]

Mack has been issued a formal warning, the step before actual suspension (not in-school)

Macks parents were contacted before mine and deny it too

The nuclear option is on the table, in other words

The Acting VP tried to make the excuse for [H] of having other duties to tend to

They heavily implied but never outright said that the situation was safe on Monday and Tuesday

No mention of external agencies to them, though, they were defensive enough already

So glad the report is in writing they said i should verbalise (which ultimately allows them to very easily deny it), so in future, it is going in writing and verbally

They did interview [C]

My mum mentioned the thrusting incident and the Acting VP literally flinched

The lie about Mandatory Reporting law is likely a defence tactic, I am sure they know the real law (and the seemed very rushed to agree when I said it had to be true to mandatory report). I am sure they know they have broken it and that we know they broke it

I think Ms Hart knows we know the real law regarding mandatory reporting as I brought up why they didnt make a report when James from the Mental Health Line had, it was too precise a question to miss the implications. Basically I asked why they didnt make a report but he had, she said it had to be proven true for them to report, I asked confirmation and they confirmed either their beliefs or their deliberate lies.

Also the ~meeting~ confrontation took a good like 40-45 minutes
}